It’s also ironic that the recurrent theme of “Yellowstone” is “preserving the MT way of life” whatever TF that means. And yes, I do love that show also and no, I’ve not been an extra even once.
Everyone is traumatized to some degree by migration- both the immigrant, who is uprooted, and the community they migrate to, who has to accommodate them. I don't think we want to say that people don't have a right to move around (contra Thomas More's Utopia, which had a strict permit system that governed when, where, and why people could travel!), and we also don't want to ignore the effect that migration has on communities.
Goodness, we've been bemoaning the disappearance of rural communities across Montana for so long, we weren't prepared for anyone to actually move into them!
I guess, the point I'd make is this: Among whatever we call "Montana values", my observation is the xenophobia is somewhere close to the core, and it's something we (I say "we" loosely, as someone who has only lived in Montana since the mid-2000s, which is long enough to blend in, but not long enough to belong; too late for A River Runs Through It and too early for Yellowstone) need to watch out for.
Mr. Handyman blundered in an interesting way, in that he assumed that these topics fell under the category of "small talk", and that apparently enough people had agreed with him in previous conversations that he felt comfortable leading with it as he spoke with strangers. How telling that he felt like xenophobia was a way to blend in with the locals! Also, it's interesting you put him in a certain class because he cashed out on the California market, and yet, in all of his privilege, he is installing a door. In your observation about the cost-of-living/wage disparity, I think it's worth mentioning that most handymen and tradesmen I talk to lately charge $80/hr. At a 40-hour workweek, that would gross $166K. Minus expenses and unbillable time and maybe they are pulling in $120K? For doing drywall or plumbing or door-installs? I'm not sure why this doesn't get more attention.
This is your story and your blog, and I don't want to co-opt it from the comments. However, I've heard this narrative so many times that it seems to have achieved a mythological status, with certain immutable doctrines. I'd really enjoy hearing it discussed with some more nuance and self awareness about what we are bringing to the table when we look at the "outsiders".
After all, even a 5th generation Montanan is still an "outsider" from the perspective of other people who live around here, and everyone one of us is a 1st generation inside our own skin.
I didn't add this in because it disrupted my flow, but I realize now I should have. This guy is actually a builder/developer. That's why he's wealthy, not because he's installing doors. I think he did that to fill in a day he had empty between bigger projects, because we talked later about some of his large contract work. Also for the record I paid him $100/hr. I realize your main point was more about my presentation of him, and my expressions about newly-minted Montanans. I'll think on that some more.
Thanks. And I'm sorry if that sounded like a dump on your viewpoint. You are a thoughtful person, and I'm looking for actual dialog on the subject, not just to tank your perspective. I really don't know what it looks like to protect people from displacement (which is damaging to community) and still allow people the freedom to move.
I do feel like the only person sounding the alarm, though, that the same people who are enthusiastic about welcoming international immigrants are often the same people who screed against domestic immigrants. And that xenophobia-especially toward Californians-is a value that crosses political ideologies. Left and right agree that Californians need to leave their politics in California. I would love for more people to think about that. :)
"I do feel like the only person sounding the alarm, though, that the same people who are enthusiastic about welcoming international immigrants are often the same people who screed against domestic immigrants."
What?!
Tait, there is a huge difference between welcoming someone from a country destroyed by war and colonialism and welcoming someone from another state who moves in because it's safer to be a racist religious fanatic in a particular community than it is where they came from. Talk about a lack of nuance and self awareness. You're so busy mansplaining Anna's post that you can't hear what you're saying.
Mr. Handyman blundered because he's a white dude who has lived his entire life saying exactly what he wants to who we wants with no consequences.
Finally, I find this statement: "Everyone is traumatized to some degree by migration- both the immigrant, who is uprooted, and the community they migrate to, who has to accommodate them" utterly repugnant in the context of what Anna wrote, and particularly when measured against the places we are talking about these "domestic immigrants" moving to. This guy wasn't uprooted, he cashed in his wealth and privilege as people like him have been doing for generations with the full weight and power of a colonial government and a white supremacist infrastructure behind him. Guys like him are in the Bitterroot now, and on the CSKT reservation, because their nth generation role models made it all available to them.
Sorry if it didn't resonates with you, Chris. I value your perspective. Gives me a pain in my gut to hear your rebuke.
I'll stand by my view, though, that we should welcome and care for people whether they come from high or humble circumstances, radical as it sounds. We sit back and tisk groups in conflict, wondering why they can't just get along, as we compile our perfectly reasonable list on why that guy is an "other". I've listened to This American Life long enough to know that everyone is complicated.
Regarding my mansplaining: If I came off strong (to you or Anna or anyone else!), I do apologize. I'm just sharing a perspective. I really value robust discussion about our differences, because that's how I learn new things. Maybe this isn't the forum for it, but, goodness, where can someone find some honest conversation in this state? I wouldn't subscribe to you folks if I thought you weren't worth listening to!
It’s also ironic that the recurrent theme of “Yellowstone” is “preserving the MT way of life” whatever TF that means. And yes, I do love that show also and no, I’ve not been an extra even once.
Everyone is traumatized to some degree by migration- both the immigrant, who is uprooted, and the community they migrate to, who has to accommodate them. I don't think we want to say that people don't have a right to move around (contra Thomas More's Utopia, which had a strict permit system that governed when, where, and why people could travel!), and we also don't want to ignore the effect that migration has on communities.
Goodness, we've been bemoaning the disappearance of rural communities across Montana for so long, we weren't prepared for anyone to actually move into them!
I guess, the point I'd make is this: Among whatever we call "Montana values", my observation is the xenophobia is somewhere close to the core, and it's something we (I say "we" loosely, as someone who has only lived in Montana since the mid-2000s, which is long enough to blend in, but not long enough to belong; too late for A River Runs Through It and too early for Yellowstone) need to watch out for.
Mr. Handyman blundered in an interesting way, in that he assumed that these topics fell under the category of "small talk", and that apparently enough people had agreed with him in previous conversations that he felt comfortable leading with it as he spoke with strangers. How telling that he felt like xenophobia was a way to blend in with the locals! Also, it's interesting you put him in a certain class because he cashed out on the California market, and yet, in all of his privilege, he is installing a door. In your observation about the cost-of-living/wage disparity, I think it's worth mentioning that most handymen and tradesmen I talk to lately charge $80/hr. At a 40-hour workweek, that would gross $166K. Minus expenses and unbillable time and maybe they are pulling in $120K? For doing drywall or plumbing or door-installs? I'm not sure why this doesn't get more attention.
This is your story and your blog, and I don't want to co-opt it from the comments. However, I've heard this narrative so many times that it seems to have achieved a mythological status, with certain immutable doctrines. I'd really enjoy hearing it discussed with some more nuance and self awareness about what we are bringing to the table when we look at the "outsiders".
After all, even a 5th generation Montanan is still an "outsider" from the perspective of other people who live around here, and everyone one of us is a 1st generation inside our own skin.
I didn't add this in because it disrupted my flow, but I realize now I should have. This guy is actually a builder/developer. That's why he's wealthy, not because he's installing doors. I think he did that to fill in a day he had empty between bigger projects, because we talked later about some of his large contract work. Also for the record I paid him $100/hr. I realize your main point was more about my presentation of him, and my expressions about newly-minted Montanans. I'll think on that some more.
Thanks. And I'm sorry if that sounded like a dump on your viewpoint. You are a thoughtful person, and I'm looking for actual dialog on the subject, not just to tank your perspective. I really don't know what it looks like to protect people from displacement (which is damaging to community) and still allow people the freedom to move.
I do feel like the only person sounding the alarm, though, that the same people who are enthusiastic about welcoming international immigrants are often the same people who screed against domestic immigrants. And that xenophobia-especially toward Californians-is a value that crosses political ideologies. Left and right agree that Californians need to leave their politics in California. I would love for more people to think about that. :)
"I do feel like the only person sounding the alarm, though, that the same people who are enthusiastic about welcoming international immigrants are often the same people who screed against domestic immigrants."
What?!
Tait, there is a huge difference between welcoming someone from a country destroyed by war and colonialism and welcoming someone from another state who moves in because it's safer to be a racist religious fanatic in a particular community than it is where they came from. Talk about a lack of nuance and self awareness. You're so busy mansplaining Anna's post that you can't hear what you're saying.
Mr. Handyman blundered because he's a white dude who has lived his entire life saying exactly what he wants to who we wants with no consequences.
Finally, I find this statement: "Everyone is traumatized to some degree by migration- both the immigrant, who is uprooted, and the community they migrate to, who has to accommodate them" utterly repugnant in the context of what Anna wrote, and particularly when measured against the places we are talking about these "domestic immigrants" moving to. This guy wasn't uprooted, he cashed in his wealth and privilege as people like him have been doing for generations with the full weight and power of a colonial government and a white supremacist infrastructure behind him. Guys like him are in the Bitterroot now, and on the CSKT reservation, because their nth generation role models made it all available to them.
Sorry if it didn't resonates with you, Chris. I value your perspective. Gives me a pain in my gut to hear your rebuke.
I'll stand by my view, though, that we should welcome and care for people whether they come from high or humble circumstances, radical as it sounds. We sit back and tisk groups in conflict, wondering why they can't just get along, as we compile our perfectly reasonable list on why that guy is an "other". I've listened to This American Life long enough to know that everyone is complicated.
Regarding my mansplaining: If I came off strong (to you or Anna or anyone else!), I do apologize. I'm just sharing a perspective. I really value robust discussion about our differences, because that's how I learn new things. Maybe this isn't the forum for it, but, goodness, where can someone find some honest conversation in this state? I wouldn't subscribe to you folks if I thought you weren't worth listening to!